COMMISSION ON THE POWERS AND
ELECTORAL ARRANGEMENTS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY FOR
WALES
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In Attendance:
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Lord Richard, Chair, Richard Commission
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Huw Thomas, Richard Commission
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Tom Jones, Richard Commission
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Paul Valerio, Richard Commission
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Vivienne Sugar, Richard Commission
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Dr Laura McAllister, Richard Commission
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Peter Price, Richard Commission
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Sir Michael Wheeler Booth, Richard
Commission
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Ted Rowlands, Richard Commission
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Vivienne Sugar, The Richard Commission
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Representatives from the Wrexham, Conwy and Gwynedd
Youth Forums
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Lord Richard
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| Good afternoon. Thank you for coming. You are going
to do a presentation for us first are you? Okay. Right. |
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(Start of Powerpoint Presentation)
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Carwyn
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| We are representatives from the Wrexham, Conwy and Gwynedd
youth; we are members of the forums from each of these
counties. |
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Zoe
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| The first meeting was planned originally in Wrexham
on 25 February 2003, attended by all three counties. We
looked in the meeting at how we could take the ideas of
the group forward into a manageable programme. This was
the first time the three counties met and we had a thorough
discussion about the Assembly. From this we decided that
it was a very valuable option for us to speak to you today. |
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Zoe
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| On Monday the 10th and Tuesday the 11th… |
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Carwyn
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| …of March 2003 we went down to Cardiff to visit
the National Assembly for Wales. |
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Sacha
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| Before we went down to Cardiff we decided it would be
a good opportunity for us to interview and discuss with
key people before going down. We spoke to the Chief Executive
and the Head of Education, Dafydd Wigley, Hywel Williams,
and we thought that it would be a good opportunity to
get their opinion before we came down. |
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Carwyn
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| We saw a debate in the Scottish Parliament Debate Chamber.
At the time we entered the Scottish Parliament we
didn't know what they were debating about because we did
not have a tour. But in the Welsh Parliament, no. We had
a proper talk and tour and we know what they were doing
and how they were running things. |
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Christina
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| This visit to the National Assembly: during our education
tour of the Welsh Assembly, we interviewed Assembly Member
Janet Ryder, we observed the plenaries and interviewed
the First Minister, Rhodri Morgan. |
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Carwyn
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| During the visit with Scottish Parliament we visited
the Parliament information centre and viewed a meeting
of the Scottish Parliament and their debating Chamber. |
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Zoe
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| After these visits we decided on what we thought of
the Assembly. There are two groups to this group; some
are in favour of a Parliament, and others are quite happy
with the Assembly. Wales can make its own laws, and new
laws can also be influenced by Wales and Welsh people. |
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Jose
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| I like the Welsh Assembly the way it is but I would
prefer to see Wales as a Nation. |
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Louise
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| We have more respect as a Nation. |
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Natalie
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| Coming up to the British formula where England would
have a certain amount of money and separate from Scotland,
Ireland, and Wales. If we became a Parliament, then perhaps
it would be shared equally and not just be a lump sum
for England… just little bits, because we don't get
enough money in what we do. |
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Carla
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| Proportional representation will lead to consensual
politics, but in reality the Assembly has a long way to
go to achieve this. Westminster is one-Party dominated. |
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Carwyn
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| The other group is not in favour and not opposed to
a Parliament and what we feel is that what the Welsh Assembly
Government has achieved for Wales is good, as there are
more opportunities for young people. My personal opinion
on this is that (I have just written a small amount),
what I have said is that the Assembly is only four years
old. It is still young, and we have to think of it as
a child, a four-year-old child. And if through foot and
mouth mistakes were made, that was because it was so young,
and things were not done properly if you understand what
I mean. |
| I think that it should get more powers in the future
but I think that at present it is doing well as it is
on things, for example, like establishing the youth forums;
‘Funky Dragon’, young peoples partnerships,
free prescriptions and dental checks up for the under
25’s. |
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Sacha
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| And also things have improved for young people since
the Assembly started. There has only been a short period
of time; a longer period of time would allow the Assembly
to progress on what it has already achieved. |
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Christina
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| We don't have the confidence in the present ruling Party
that they would drive forward for a Parliament and have
the skills to maintain an effective and successful Parliament. |
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Natalie
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| What do the majority of young people have in the future
in Wales? The future of Wales belongs to the young people
of Wales. That is it. The end! |
| (End of Powerpoint Presentation) |
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Lord Richard
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| Well now, how many of you are in each group? |
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Carwyn
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| In the group where we think it is okay right now? |
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Lord Richard
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| Put your hands up. |
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Carwyn
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| In each county? |
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Tom Jones
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| How many are in favour? |
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Christina
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| These three are happy enough with the Welsh Assembly
and the rest believe in Parliament. |
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Lord Richard
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| I see. Can we ask you about what you mean by Parliament?
Does it mean independence? |
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Zoe
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| Not complete independence because Scotland is not completely
independent - it still has its links with Westminster.
But I personally believe that a lot of Wales' laws have
to go through Westminster, and you know they have to join
the massive queue and it has to go through Wales itself
mainly. It just seems Wales has to wait until people are
ready to take those Laws. I just feel that we should have
a little more say, a little bit more independence. |
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Lord Richard
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| It is a Scottish sort of model that you might look at? |
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Zoe
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| Yes, because their legislation is made there. All their
legislation relates to the Scottish people, and you know,
here legislation may be through England and Wales, and
perhaps our take on things is a little bit different to
England. Maybe a Parliament would help us in that way. |
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Lord Richard
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| I see. |
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Ted Rowlands
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| What do you think is different - what Welsh problems
have we got that are different from English problems?
Exclusion, poverty in England, you have got poverty and
exclusion in Wales? What other distinctive problems are
there that Wales is facing – why are there different
solutions? What is different? |
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Louise
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| We have our language. |
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Lord Richard
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| That is not a problem. |
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Louise
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| It certainly is not. |
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Lord Richard
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| It is a plus, not a minus. |
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Louise
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| Look how much of a problem it was today for you. We
wanted to present it in Welsh for you and you know it
is a bit…just things like that. We tend to feel England
is bigger than Wales and perhaps just something tends
to get forgotten in the rural area. |
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Christina
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| Wales is a beautiful country because it should be recognised
more than England. England spends money on the Dome; a
million pounds on a Dome that could go on to hospitals
or something to do with Wales. Half of our money has gone
to that and it is just a total box, it is a waste. |
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Peter Price
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| Are you happy for money to go on the new Assembly building? |
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Louise
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| As we went to tour around the Scottish building, well,
it was so busy that we didn't have enough time to go all
around, but in the Welsh Assembly they had enough time
to explain to us. They had a debate and they were telling
us what the debate was about. But in Scotland we didn't
have a clue what they were talking about. |
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Sacha
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| South Wales has already got one Assembly - why do they
have to build another one in the Southwest? Why don’t
they try to build one up here? |
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Peter Price
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| How do you feel about the North and the South, tell
us? |
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Christina
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| I think there is a lot of division. I think that priorities
are given to South Wales because the Assembly and stuff
is South Wales and we have got nothing. |
| Up here all you have is your AM. And it is like one
or two days, we have got to book an appointment or whatever,
you can't go there any time of the week and talk to them.
You have got to go into South Wales or they have got to
go to South Wales. You have got nothing to represent the
Welsh Assembly you know. |
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Peter Price
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| Suppose once a year for a week everything was brought
up for that week and met somewhere in North Wales - would
that make an impact? |
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Carwyn
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| No. |
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Christina
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| Yes. |
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Carla
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| If one week of the year it is here and the rest of the
week it is there. |
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Peter Price
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| What would you seek that would have some real impact
to change this appreciation of it all being in Cardiff?
What practical ideas do you have to solve that problem? |
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Carwyn
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| An Office here in North Wales rather than everyone having
to travel to Cardiff. What we have learnt is that Ministers
are down there between Monday and Thursday and the same
for Members. Why can't those in South Wales meet in South
Wales and those from North Wales meet in North Wales rather
than having to travel back and forth continually? That
is how I feel anyway, that we have to travel all the way
down there. For me, the Assembly represents South Wales;
I don't think that we are represented here. |
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Tom Jones
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| How much information do you get in schools and colleges
about the Assembly? |
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Zoe
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| We have learnt this through the forum - we have done
it ourselves. |
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Tom Jones
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| If you hadn't done it yourself would you know anything?
How do you think that education actually gives information
about the way that we are governed? |
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Carwyn
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| It not…it's just the school. I think people in
general do not know what the Assembly does, so I think
that we have to balance this out so that people - older
people and young people - get educated. |
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Zoe
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| I have learnt a lot from parents since being involved.
They had no idea – they know just as much as I do;
well, even I know more than they do about the Assembly. |
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Tom Jones
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| Well, do you think the Assembly could do better in explaining
it? |
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Sacha
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| Yes maybe it should go around schools, and/or have more
meetings with young people. Just to show that there is
some interest, that they are taking an interest. |
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Zoe
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| Maybe nothing will come out at the end of the day but
young people would at least then get into their heads
that the Assembly does take an interest in them and they
are quite willing if they were to come and see us. |
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Tom Jones
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| Do you think your forum could develop enough to give
opinions on all sorts of activities within the Assembly,
not just the Assembly itself as a body for or against
but on the work of the Assembly in terms of the education,
health, environment? Do you think you could meet often
enough to get in touch with your fellow members in the
schools to actually present your opinion so the young
people’s opinions are represented in all areas? |
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Christina
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| That is what we are intending to do already. We do hold
two or three meetings anyway. |
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Dr Laura McAllister
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| The Scottish Parliament has got something similar to
that. I am sure they hold some form of Youth Parliament.
They try to ensure that all different parts of Scotland
– the young people in different parts of Scotland
- are represented. Would that be something that you would
favour? |
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Zoe
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| We come from Gwynedd, the rest come from Wrexham and
their problems are different to ours. We have got problems
in transport etc; they have got a little more violence
towards where they are. You know it is little things like
that that we have, and we tend to feel that people from
different areas come together and get a bigger picture
of Wales itself. |
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Dr Laura McAllister
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| What do you think of the politics in the Assembly? They
are not typical of politicians in some senses. There are
more women for a start, you know. Was that noticeable
when you were there? |
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Carwyn
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| When we went to Scotland? |
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Dr Laura McAllister
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| In Wales, though you could apply it to both of them. |
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Carwyn
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| Well, it was clear that there was more confidence in
the Assembly because when we visited the Chamber in Scotland,
they were quite quiet. They seemed to be moving around
a lot but it depends on the day I suppose, and what they
have to be discussing. When we visited the Assembly they
were questioning Rhodri Morgan. They were far livelier,
there was more of a debate; there were far more arguments.
It was nice to see really, it was quite exciting. |
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Louise
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| We were high up in the Welsh Assembly, we were more
on the same level, and we could hear them. |
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Lord Richard
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| When they have the new building they will be up there? |
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Natalie
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| Why would it have to be a new building? |
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Lord Richard
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| We are not here to defend the building. We are here
to listen to people, not to defend the policy. They do
ask very good questions don't they? |
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Paul Valerio
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| They ask very good questions. |
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Lord Richard
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| Do you use forums in other parts of Wales? Is this a
body of opinion? |
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Tom Jones
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| Tell us about ‘Funky Dragon’. |
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Carwyn
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| I represent Gwynedd on the Grand Council. Gwynedd is
a large county so it is (this is my personal opinion)
- there should be two there from every county and Gwynedd
is huge. It takes how long to get to Blaenau Ffestiniog?
Where we live it takes about an hour; it is a huge county.
But I am glad that there is a group and an Assembly for
the young people of Wales: what is called ‘Funky
Dragon’. |
| So I am glad that has been established and also Glanteg,
and also that the Assembly has asked to set up another
youth partnership and Sacha and myself sit on that in
Gwynedd. And they've also set up youth forums so that
is a good step forward. |
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Lord Richard
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| When you meet with those all-Wales bodies, what is the
general feeling about the Assembly in that body? For example,
are they split the same way that you are? |
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Carwyn
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| Well I think that they have far more confidence. When
I meet with people from South Wales they are far more
confident. I find myself stepping back and just let them
to do the talking because they have been influenced more
in South Wales. That is where it is has been established
so they feel at home there. And we feel like we are 100
miles away, which we are quite literally. |
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Lord Richard
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| Don't you think this ought to be in the capital? |
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Carwyn
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| Well, yes, but there should be Offices around Wales.
For me, the Assembly should have been established in mid-Wales
because that is where we meet as ‘Funky Dragons’.
There is one residential meeting now coming up in the
next month, that is in Bala, and then the next one will
be in mid-Wales and the one after that in South Wales.
We move around to make it fair for everyone. But I don't
think that the Assembly really does that because it has
been established solely in Cardiff. I don't see that as
being fair. |
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Lord Richard
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| The Assembly can move actually. When I was in the European
Parliament and they met monthly and moved everything from
Brussels and Luxembourg down to Strasbourg for a week
then all back again. Apart from being pretty inconvenient
it was extraordinarily expensive. I wouldn't be in favour
of moving around. |
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Carwyn
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| Well I am not saying that it should move around, it
is ‘Funky Dragon’ that does that. But what I
am saying it's that there should be an Office in North
Wales where the Member for North Wales can meet and Ministers
can meet. |
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Zoe
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| If they do have any questions about the Assembly young
people in North Wales should be able to access an Office
in North Wales and then they would feel that they do have
some sort of say and some sort of input. Something that
simple. We are not talking about moving the Assembly all
the way to North Wales, we understand that that would
be a complete waste of time. But if we do have complaints
or questions to ask we should not have to travel five
hours in a car to go and ask one question. |
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Christina
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| We could do so in an hour to travel North Wales; we
don't have to travel five hours to Cardiff on the train
and in a car. It is easier if you have access to an Office
in North Wales. |
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Eira Davies
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| You mentioned the things that have improved since the
establishment of the Assembly, that there were more opportunities
for young people. In what way has the Assembly had an
impact on you as young people in your communities? Or
maybe it has not affected you? |
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Carwyn
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| We wouldn't be here if it was not for the Assembly because
we are part of the youth forum and part of the young youth
partnership and ‘Funky Dragon’. So we would
not be here today if it was not for the Assembly. |
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Eira Davies
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| So before you became involved you knew hardly anything
about the Assembly. You then became part of this forum,
and you have now learnt a great deal about the Assembly.
What is the next step for you as young people as far as
the Assembly is concerned? |
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Carwyn
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| To take part - participate and see where it goes next. |
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Zoe
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| To put the information we have forward to other people
because if it does change we will have to live with it
in the future. We need to try to show young people that
it is our future that we are talking about, so we want
to pass on the information we have to others so they can
then pass it on to other people, so that more people become
aware of the Assembly and the kind of work it is doing. |
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Ted Rowlands
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| What do you think about politicians? Would any of you
like to become politicians? |
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Louise
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| I would. I think about it in the Welsh Assembly actually.
It looks fun. |
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Paul Valerio
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| When we come to do the other half of this exercise we
are in, the electoral arrangements, do you think we should
consider lowering the voting age and/or making it easier
for young people to stand for election? |
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Natalie
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| From the way it stands now there seems to be more young
people leading away from voting because we just don't
know. Before I came and I went to these three groups and
started to get involved, I didn't know anything about
the Government panels and all that. I am old enough to
vote; I wouldn't vote because I do not know what is what. |
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Zoe
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| If you're thinking about lowering the age I think in
some ways you should be talking a little bit about the
Government, maybe even friendly presentations where you
can learn what the policies of the different groups are.
Because at times you see a political broadcast on television,
but what they are saying goes straight over your head.
You don't understand it. So if people did want to lower
the age maybe we should consider giving us a little bit
more information that we could understand. |
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Tom Jones
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| Not just being for politicians, there is a lot of work
going on in the Assembly providing information for politicians
in the areas of health, education, environment. Are you
interested in that work as civil servants? |
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Zoe
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| I did help in the Plaid Cymru Office in Llandudno in
the summer and that has been an extremely valuable experience
to me, to see that there is so much more going on than
just the politics. There is so much more behind it and
people can actually give their opinions and express themselves.
I do think that the Assembly is actually creating a great
many jobs in Wales as well. It has been a way for us to
move forward in that career perhaps. |
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Tom Jones
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| Well, the Assembly Cabinet publishes its minutes on
the web. Have you read them? |
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Christina
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| I had no idea before I visited the Assembly that such
a thing existed until we were actually given a pack that
told us where the websites were. I did not know where
to start to look to be honest. |
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Ted Rowlands
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| If you could change something what would you change
in Wales? |
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Louise
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| Change my school for a start. It is massive. It is a
mess but they are building it. |
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Ted Rowlands
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| A physical mess? |
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Louise
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| It has taken ages for them to do it. It is falling to
pieces. |
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Natalie
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| I would change the way that they ask for a grant–
we get forms and they are just so full of – |
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Ted Rowlands
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| Boxes. |
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Natalie
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| It is unbelievable what you have to fill out to get
a grant. I would change the form so that it would become
less complicated. You would, you know, just put your name
etc - just more simple. |
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Ted Rowlands
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| What about the rest? You will knock the – build
a new school, yes. You would have fewer forms or simpler
forms? |
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Zoe
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| The way transport is run for instance. There is massive
lack of transport in rural areas, and buses are a mess. |
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Sacha
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| One bus a day. |
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Zoe
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| I have to travel on the bus from 50 minutes there and
back, to an hour and 40 minutes, just to get to my college
and home and I have to use the service. How many times
that that has broken down in the last two years is incredible.
You know, it is just little things like that. |
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Rachael
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| I think that we should be more serious if you know what
I mean, on serious things more than less serious things. |
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Dr Laura McAllister
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| Like what? |
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Carla
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| Violence. |
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Dr Laura McAllister
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| Street violence? |
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Carla
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| Instead of just like – |
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Carwyn
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| Wasting money there I think anyway. |
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Lord Richard
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| Is there much street violence and mugging? |
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Louise
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| In Wrexham. I think there is everywhere really but we
have got a bigger problem, especially when alcohol is
involved. Falling down in the streets, they have a bit
to drink, then they start fighting and the police are
there straightaway – there are millions of them. |
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Louise
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| It was on Crimewatch last night. There was one
in Conwy and somewhere in a nature reserve people were
fighting. It should be more secure. People just walk in,
steal stuff, and walk back out. |
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Lord Richard
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| What else would you change? |
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Jose
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| I don't know. The difference is really from North to
South Wales. South Wales is more…everything is in
South Wales. |
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Ted Rowlands
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| Too simple. |
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Dr Laura McAllister
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| What do you think about the idea we keep on hearing
about in the North - that Wales is a divided country and
that there are big differences between those of you from
South Wales and those of you who come from North Wales.
How do you see your future? Do you look to be based in
the North? Do you look to Liverpool and Manchester as
places where you may move in the future, or do you think
Cardiff might be somewhere you might think about? Cardiff
is a bit of a big City now, with lots of attractions. |
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Louise
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| It depends on the prices, because houses cost so much.
I have been looking for a place and it costs so much.
Houses are about £200,000 - wow! |
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Dr Laura McAllister
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| In Cardiff or in Wales? |
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Louise
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| In North Wales. In Liverpool everything costs so much
- how can you afford it? You look to your Mum until you
get more money. |
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Carwyn
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| The problem with housing as well, is that when it is
so expensive you see people from outside moving in. They
are not making it fair for local people. They just raise
the prices too high and don't bring them down. |
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Ted Rowlands
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| Should this policy be changed? |
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Carwyn
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| If they got more power then going to college –
I was thinking of Liverpool and Manchester – I would
rather travel two hours than go down to Cardiff. It is
quite scary for me to go over to Liverpool without going
down to Cardiff but I want to be close enough to home
but far enough away, so I think Liverpool or Manchester
will be much better for me than Cardiff would be. |
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Dr Laura McAllister
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| I can recommend Liverpool. I teach there. |
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Paul Valerio
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| What factors would influence where you seek to find
a job? You have talked about cost of housing. |
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Peter Price
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| It seems to be a common problem across Wales –
proximity to your home. It is a factor for the North West
of England if you are going outside Wales. But what are
the attractions of Cardiff like when compared to the attractions
of the North-West? If you were going outside Wales, what
are the things that would hold you where you are? |
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Natalie
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| There is nothing to hold where I am apart from friends. |
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Dr Laura McAllister
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| Is that Wrexham? |
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Natalie
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| Yes. There is nothing to keep me in Wrexham at all.
I would much rather be away from Wales at the moment because
it is just a mess It stands as the South and the North:
it is separated, and it should not be like that. It should
be together. |
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Lord Richard
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| That is a fair view – it has been many years like
that. |
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Zoe
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| I don't think I will ever live where I am now when I
am older because of the jobs that I would like to have.
You know, you have dreams and all this, and you would
never reach your goals here. Where I am in south Meirionydd
I could never get a proper job. There is nothing there
for us and so you move away. And then again you move away
and you've got higher prices than we have got at home
so it is a big hurdle at the moment. |
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Lord Richard
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| Can I ask you a question - how many of you see your
working life outside Wales rather than inside? |
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Natalie
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| Out. |
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Zoe
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| I am going to the South. |
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Paul Valerio
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| What do you feel about the voting system? The Welsh
Assembly two systems of voting, first past the post and
the other. Which do you think is a good balance or would
you rather all one or all the other or another system?
What do you think would be better? |
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Carwyn
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| I am too young, I can't comment. |
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Zoe
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| What we understood after going to visit the Assembly
was that the first past the post was the majority party
Most of the Parties don't get equal representation in
the Assembly. I found that a little bit ridiculous to
be honest because, yes, maybe Labour is in Parliament
in Westminster, fair enough, but Wales’ opinion may
be different. Wales is all regions, besides which party
they want to nominate to represent. What I found out from
what I understood is that it seems that it does not matter
what you vote, it is the first past the post that made
people…I have lost where I have gone now. |
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Dr Laura McAllister
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| Would you want there to be a sort of better balance
between how you vote and who gets elected, is that what
you mean? |
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Zoe
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| Yes. Because it seems you voted but then again, it is
just numbers or percentages. |
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Dr Laura McAllister
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| You want more of the proportional type? |
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Zoe
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| Yes. |
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Paul Valerio
|
| How many of you can identify who your AM and who your
MP is, and what is it you feel is the main difference
between them as far as how you approach them? |
|
Sacha
|
| My MP is not even here as much as my AM is. |
|
Zoe
|
| Yes. There is an AM for us who is really approachable,
so I don't know. But I don't think there is much difference
for both of them to represent us. |
|
Christina
|
| One wants to be involved with any problems. We are part
of a group and we go around and talk about business and
families. He has actually nominated himself for us to
go there and see and listen. I think he was quite approachable
too. |
|
Ted Rowlands
|
| How many of you have been to Westminster? |
|
Carwyn
|
| I have been to London but I have not been inside the
Houses of Parliament. I have been outside. |
|
Ted Rowlands
|
| Outside but not inside? |
|
Carwyn
|
| Yes. |
|
Louise
|
| If you want to go and see London it is going to be a
long journey again, so it is going to cost a lot of money
to get down there to stay the night, have some food, and
you have got to travel all the way back up. That is why
it should be separate, so we know what it is like. |
|
Paul Valerio
|
| If you certainly do well perhaps you could have the
opportunity to speak to some of your MP's, they might
be better informed? |
|
Dr Laura McAllister
|
| I think you should have systems to promote different
groups as politicians, like women and young people, and
say people with disabilities. Do you think it is a good
idea to actually have some scheme whereby you promote
a particular group to ensure that they have a formal representation? |
|
Natalie
|
| To get our point of view across, our point of view really
because what they talk about is nothing to do with young
people, but may involve them starting the youth group
and then they put buildings for youth groups; all that
type of thing. It is just to be honest, as if we were
there, and we were telling our point of view, and what
we think should be happening in Wales then perhaps it
would get done. Do you know what I mean? |
|
Zoe
|
| You cannot expect one representative to think about
all the different groups, and then areas. Each young person’s
opinion is completely different to everybody's special
needs, young families, and all this. You can't expect
one person to think about all the different aspects experiences
and opinions |
|
Lord Richard
|
| We have all been young once. |
|
Zoe
|
| People tend to forget that, don't they? No offence! |
|
Paul Valerio
|
| Dependent on which side of the room you are sitting
is how you feel. |
|
Zoe
|
| There should be a Minister. |
|
Tom Jones
|
| Do you know if there is a Minister with special responsibility
for young people? |
|
Carwyn
|
| No. But I met the Minister in ‘Funky Dragon’;
I do think they did listen to me. Jane Davidson was the
best. |
|
Tom Jones
|
| She is the Minister for Education so she is responsible
for young people as well, isn't she? |
|
Carwyn
|
| Yes. I felt that she did listen to me, to us, in the
meeting. |
|
Peter Price
|
| What are the things that make you proud of being Welsh? |
|
Carwyn
|
| To speak the Welsh language. |
|
Louise
|
| Yes, it is amazing. |
|
Carwyn
|
| The Culture. |
|
Peter Price
|
| Culture…distinctive. |
|
Natalie
|
| History. |
|
Louise
|
| There is so much history for people to go and visit.
It is a big place, and so interesting, and Wales has got
a lot of history– it is so nice and quiet and peaceful. |
|
Peter Price
|
| I am getting the idea of scenery: the countryside and
geography is important in Wales. |
|
Paul Valerio
|
| I am surprised you have not mentioned rugby. |
|
Zoo
|
| We were keeping quiet; we were saying it softly. |
|
Carwyn
|
| Rugby is in South Wales – that is a South Wales
thing. |
|
Ted Rowlands
|
| You do well. |
|
Paul Valerio
|
| You do well in soccer. |
|
Peter Price
|
| I have noticed – Paul picked up that you have not
mentioned any of the teams but you also have not mentioned
the National Assembly. |
|
Christina
|
| I am still sticking to my thing. I am not against it,
I am not for it. I think we have got a long way to go
until we can sort of put ourselves right. So I will say
I am for the Welsh Assembly but I do not have the faith
that we can actually carry out. |
|
Dr Laura McAllister
|
| Trust thinks other groups are more attractive to young
people particularly those of from Welsh-speaking parts
of Wales. Clubs like the Urdd. Do you think they appeal
to young people in the way that some of the Political
Parties do not at the moment? If so, why is that? |
|
Zoe
|
| The main reason young people join these in Gwynedd is
because they really have got this fire in them and young
people think 'wow!', there is somebody actually doing
something. I mean as young people, as all of you should
know, you want to rebel, you want to be heard, so that
is probably why the people joined. Then again, if these
people – if political parties, I don't know, make
their appeal just a little bit more, maybe you would get
things done more. |
|
Sir Michael Wheeler-Booth
|
| Are you doing anything about the Assembly Elections;
I mean are you having a mock election? |
|
Carwyn
|
| No. Nothing. |
|
Sir Michael Wheeler-Booth
|
| Why not? |
|
Tom Jones
|
| No? |
|
Zoe
|
| No interest. |
|
Carwyn
|
| I think – |
|
Zoe
|
| Not with us, but, you know, my friends, I have no idea,
and they do not care. They just do not seem to care. That
is a bit sad really. |
|
Lord Richard
|
| Are you going to work in the elections for a particular
party, whichever party it is? Are you actually going out
and knocking on doors? |
|
Louise
|
| They are not going to actually listen to us really. |
|
Sir Michael Wheeler-Booth
|
| Why not? |
|
Carwyn
|
| They see us as bad people. |
|
Zoe
|
| What would we know? |
|
Carwyn
|
| Not bad like that but - |
|
Lord Richard
|
| You do not need to know very much actually. It is just
knocking on doors. |
|
Dr Laura McAllister
|
| Did you say you worked for Plaid Cymru in this area?
Are you going to do anything now in the election campaign,
or was that last summer? |
|
Zoe
|
| I don't know. I think I am not tying myself down yet
I don't understand, you know. It was more work experience
that time. Yes. |
|
Dr Laura McAllister
|
| You don't want to go out canvassing? |
|
Zoe
|
| Yes, it is too early for me. |
|
Lord Richard
|
| Would you vote? |
|
Zoe
|
| Not of age. I won't be of age on 1st May. |
|
Paul Valerio
|
| If you had a vote. |
|
Lord Richard
|
| If you had a vote would you vote? |
|
Paul Valerio
|
| Yes. |
|
Natalie
|
| If we had the information, then yes. If we knew a lot
more. |
|
Lord Richard
|
| Some of you have got votes haven't you? |
|
Dr Laura McAllister
|
| You said you have. |
|
Natalie
|
| I am old enough to vote. |
|
Paul Valerio
|
| Apathy in the elections is one of the biggest problems
at any age isn't it? |
|
Natalie
|
| I was told if you don't vote then you cannot complain
about what has been done. |
|
Lord Richard
|
| I agree with that. I think that is absolutely correct. |
|
Natalie
|
| Yes. I think I will vote. Just vote for somebody who
I don't think will go in so it will not pass judgement. |
|
Sir Michael Wheeler-Booth
|
| In the past there have been great figures like Lloyd
George, or Nye Bevan and a lot of others from Wales, and
they threw themselves into politics at an early age and
worked their way up. And presumably, they saw themselves
having a positive future and I just wondered if you never
sort of thought about stepping into it, of having a go
and a try? |
|
Zoe
|
| I am going to University next year. I am going to study
international politics so I am going to as well with Welsh,
I am going to do an equal subject. So I hope. |
|
Lord Richard
|
| A University in Wales? |
|
Zoe
|
| I am going to Aberystwyth, yes. |
|
Sir Michael Wheeler-Booth
|
| Will you join all the political parties when you get
there? |
|
Zoe
|
| That will be telling wouldn't it! |
|
Sir Michael Wheeler-Booth
|
| I did when I was at Oxford, I joined every single one
but just for interest. |
|
Zoe
|
| Yes. |
|
Ted Rowlands
|
| Do you all want to go to University, is that your immediate
future? |
|
Carwyn
|
| Yes. |
|
Ted Rowlands
|
| University? Yes? |
|
Louise
|
| I am not staying in school. Because I would not want
to go to University. |
|
Ted Rowlands
|
| You don't want to go to University, why not? |
|
Louise
|
| I have stayed out of school to do my GNVQ, my ICT and
then I am just going; fingers crossed I will be going
to be a receptionist on a cruise ship. But fingers crossed:
it is still far away. |
|
Lord Richard
|
| It is a long way away to work. |
|
Louise
|
| Exactly. |
|
Lord Richard
|
| Can I ask you who elected you? How did you come to be
on the forum? Was it an election? |
|
Sir Michael Wheeler-Booth
|
| Self-elections? |
|
Sacha
|
| Names in a hat. |
|
Dr Laura McAllister
|
| If you come to schools and college. |
|
Christina
|
| We are forums already. There are ten of us, and then
we were asked to come. Everybody who wanted to go put
their hands up, then because there were too many, because
we said there were three, four from each county I mean,
it had to be names out of a hat. |
|
Lord Richard
|
| There was an election – you know, within your school
or something like that? |
|
Zoe
|
| I started from the school council, and from the school
council there was information that there were forums in
Gwynedd. |
|
Lord Richard
|
| That’s the same in Wrexham is it? |
|
Natalie
|
| What sort? No we just volunteered to go. |
|
Louise
|
| We had a youth forum and so we went to Dublin and we
stayed there overnight and we met every Thursday afternoon.
But then we stopped doing school and then I went back
and we went different ways. We had to phone up one day,
and she asked if I wanted to do something about the Welsh
Assembly? I said yes fine. And I did it for a free trip
but then when I was talking before I went to the Welsh
Assembly she told me what it was about and then I gradually
learnt what it was about. |
|
Lord Richard
|
| Do you report back to anybody in your school for example?
If you're a forum representative for your school, do you
go back and tell them what has happened? |
|
Sacha
|
| On my school council as well, yes, it was like a link.
Because I am on the forum I am also allowed to be part
of the school council. So then there is a representative
from every year in the school council so they have to
feed back what I have said. |
|
Paul Valerio
|
| We hear a lot about equal opportunities for women. How
come Carwyn is lucky enough to be the only man? |
|
Carwyn
|
| Probably because I was only one of two boys at the forum
meeting at that time. So actually I was there because
I was a reserve. |
|
Ted Rowlands
|
| The point about the North/South – what about the
great world outside, have you been on travels? |
|
Carwyn
|
| Yes. |
|
Ted Rowlands
|
| My daughter has gone to Japan for two years. Do you
all want to go back-packing somewhere – to Australia
for example? |
|
Zoe
|
| Yes. |
|
Louise
|
| Yes, I want to go to Australia because of my aunts and
uncles - I haven't seen them for like ages, and my Dad
says if you have enough money, go and see them. And then
I have loads of aunts and uncles around everywhere and
I want to travel everywhere. |
|
Ted Rowlands
|
| And the rest of you yes? You are going to go backpacking? |
|
Jose
|
| Yes. Somewhere hot. |
|
Paul Valerio
|
| Where do you want to go? |
|
Rachael
|
| America. |
|
Ted Rowlands
|
| Where is the most attractive place in the world? |
|
Carla
|
| Here. Here. Yes. |
|
Lord Richard
|
| You don't think Wrexham is the biggest place in the
world do you? |
|
Louise
|
| I go for scenery as well because Canada has got beautiful
scenery. I would like to go there. |
|
Sir Michael Wheeler-Booth
|
| Thinking of going to Australia and Canada, they have
huge countries with a Parliament. For those huge countries
in each case they are 3,000 miles apart and you complained
about North and South Wales: it is 100 miles something
like that, and that is 3,000 miles. People go to the Parliament,
take part, and there is a Youth Parliament; they dress
up and have a gown and wigs and things and take part in
the debates. And if they can do it in Australia, or Canada,
which is the same sort of thing, I mean as you said it
is only four years old, surely little time is divided
between North and South. |
| There will be transport in Australia one can assume,
you are not going to get improvement without trying, I
don't think. The point I am really trying to put to you
is that isn't it worth trying to improve this divide? |
|
Tom Jones
|
| One of the ways that can be done is that the Millennium
Stadium has a trust and it will be providing travelling
costs for groups of young people from one part of Wales
to go and exchange with other parts of Wales. So if you
want to go to South Wales or East or West, learn about
it, there are grants available. |
|
Paul Valerio
|
| Does it appeal to go backpacking in Swansea? |
|
Sir Michael Wheeler-Booth
|
| Not Australia. |
|
Zoe
|
| We are going to take part in the exchange for South
Wales. |
|
Sacha
|
| Cardiff youth. |
|
Paul Valerio
|
| Cardiff is not really South-West, Cardiff is Cardiff.
There is an awful lot of nice South Wales as well. |
|
Ted Rowlands
|
| Some of you mentioned Europe – you think that we
belong to Members of the European Union? Do you see Europe
as an old hat or are you not really interested? |
|
Zoe
|
| I think Europe is a bit scary at the moment because
the influence it has over Westminster itself is amazing.
Just how they have only just begun and that they are changing
laws every five minutes at the moment aren't they? And
it just seems it has such immense big power over Westminster
already it seems a bit scary to me to be honest, a bit
daunting. |
|
Lord Richard
|
| A good or thing or a bad thing? |
|
Zoe
|
| Well, since this War it has been a bit of a bad thing
hasn't it, because all the unions within Europe are divided
over opinion. And just thinking - after this War, what
is going to happen? How are they going to get back together
after such a big difference in opinion? |
|
Lord Richard
|
| Some would say that was not the fault of the European
Union. |
|
Zoe
|
| Again the EU has brought them together, it does have
a bit of responsibility over these countries, you know,
coming together. They are supposed to be one unit aren't
they? |
|
Lord Richard
|
| Moving in that direction. |
|
Sir Michael Wheeler-Booth
|
| Moving in certain directions. Certain things are supposed
to act together, for example on agriculture. They are
not agreed on foreign policy, that is why we have been
taking a different policy on Iraq. |
|
Zoe
|
| I didn't understand that. |
|
Ted Rowlands
|
| Do you think we are right to be closer to the US or
not? How do you feel about the current situation? |
|
Natalie
|
| Blair is just a puppet – Bush’s puppet. |
|
Ted Rowlands
|
| Is that a general view? |
|
Louise
|
| If we did talk about this they are not going to listen
to us because like he said, loads of people are protesting
against the War. Do you think they are going to listen
to ten kids and he is going to say change it? |
|
Ted Rowlands
|
| He has focus groups. |
|
Natalie
|
| He was on MTV - a forum with Tony Blair. He was not
answering questions at all; he was going around them.
He is not listening. |
|
Peter Price
|
| It is interesting that you are not feeling strongly
associated with the rest of Europe, you're not feeling
strongly associated with America. Now does that leave
us in a situation where your strongest association is
within the UK, or are you as it were just looking at Wales
as Wales, and please leave us alone: we are happy just
being Welsh? |
|
Natalie
|
| They cannot do that because Wales is joining on to England
- it is a shame. |
|
Louise
|
| We tag along. |
|
Natalie
|
| We are if they are going to bomb someone: they can easily
bomb us because we are part of the UK. We should be away
from them. |
|
Christina
|
| Saying the UK is all the Kingdoms together, therefore
independence. I want independence but not totally away
from the English; I want everybody to come together as
one. |
| Lord Richard |
|
You want a federal system as it were?
|
|
Christina
|
| Like everybody. |
|
Lord Richard
|
| Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. All going together? |
